to drill or not drill that is the question

[Argis]

The Senate, by a 51-49 vote, rejected an attempt by Democrats and GOP moderates to remove a refuge drilling provision from next year's budget, preventing opponents from using a filibuster — a tactic that has blocked repeated past attempts to open the Alaska refuge to oil companies.
The action, assuming Congress agrees on a budget, clears the way for approving drilling in the refuge later This year, drilling supporters said.
The oil industry has sought for more than two decades to get access to what is believed to be billions of barrels of oil beneath the 1.5 million-acre coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in the northern eastern corner of Alaska.
Environmentalists have fought such development and argued that despite improve environmental controls a web of pipelines and drilling platforms would harm calving caribou, polar bears and millions of migratory birds that use the coastal plain.
Bush has called tapping the reserve's oil a critical part of the nation's energy security and a way to reduce America's reliance on imported oil, which account for more than half of the 20 million barrels of crude use daily.
It's "a way to get some additional reserves here at home on the books," Bush said Wednesday.
The Alaska refuge could supply as much as 1 million barrels day at peak production, drilling supporters said. But they acknowledge that even if ANWR's oil is tapped, it would have no impact on soaring oil prices and tight supplies. The first lease sales would not be issued until 2007, followed by development seven to 10 years later, Interior Secretary Gale Norton said.
"We won't see this oil for 10 years. It will have minimal impact," argued Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash., a co-sponsor of the amendment that would have stripped the arctic refuge provision from the budget document. It is "foolish to say oil development and a wildlife refuge can coexist," she said.
Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., argued that more oil would be saved if Congress enacted an energy policy focusing on conservation, more efficient cars and trucks and increased reliance on renewable fuels and expanded oil development in the deep-water Gulf where there are significant reserves.
"The fact is (drilling in ANWR) is going to be destructive," said Kerry.
But drilling proponents argued that modern drilling technology can safeguard the refuge and still tap the likely — though not yet certain — 10.4 billion barrels of crude in the refuge.
"Some people say we ought to conserve more. They say we ought to conserve instead of producing this oil," said Sen. Pete Domenici, R-N.M., "But we need to do everything. We have to conserve and produce where we can."
The vote Wednesday contrasted with the last time the Senate took up the ANWR drilling issue two years ago. Then, an attempt to include it in the budget was defeated. But drilling supporters gained strength last November when Republicans picked up three additional seats, all senators who favored drilling in the refuge.
Opponents of drilling complained that Republicans this time were trying "an end run" by attaching the refuge provisions to the budget, a tactic that would allow the measure to pass with a majority vote.
"It's the only way around a filibuster" which requires 60 votes to overcome, countered Stevens.
The 19-million-acre refuge was set aside for protection by President Eisenhower in 1960, but Congress in 1980 said its 1.5 million acre coastal plain could be opened to oil development if Congress specifically authorizes it.
The House has repeatedly passed measures over the years to allow drilling in ANWR only to see the legislation stalled in the Senate. But last week, the House refused to include an ANWR provision in its budget document, although any differences between the Senate and House versions would likely be resolved in negotiations.
Drilling supporters argued that access to the refuge's oil was a matter of national security and that modern drilling technology would protect the region's wildlife.
Environmentalists contended that while new technologies have reduced the drilling footprint, ANWR's coastal plain still would contain a spider web of pipelines that would disrupt calving caribou and disturb polar bears, musk oxen and the annual influx of millions of migratory birds.

[Kimato]

This is one area where I disagree with the Republican party. I think that a better solution would be to decrease our dependence on OIL, period. It is not entirely impossible. There have already been car prototypes that ran off other things besides oil, and ran quite well. Water, sun, and purely battery-operated cars have been invented and tested to work almost as well as oil-driven cars. Not only that, but there has even been a car invented (and withheld from the public rather forcibly might I add) that got up to 1000 miles to the gallon. That is an amazing efficiency rate. Why was it withheld from the car market?

It would lessen the demand for oil
-Kimato-

[Argis]

NO $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Thats why. Yeah, I heard a car that worked on junk that could kill to birds with one stone. but Nope not enough $$$$$$$ going to big biz

[Argis]

Wow i have only heard from the Noooos where are the YESS!!!! guys
the site is split 50/50

[Arlen]

DRILLLLL AWAY I mean crap we have already ruined the earth they aren't gonna release that car to the public and heck we are running out of energy sources the sun only shines during the day and what if its cloudy, sometimes the wind doesn't blow,and batteries use lots of harmful chemicals anyway so I say drill away!

[Kimato]

A very anime sweat drop appears on Kimato's forehead upon reading Arlen's post.

Drill away? That is precisely the passive attitude that lets the big businesses know that they CAN withhold alternative solutions from the public to make more money. Americans are too lazy to sacrifice a little bit for anything, so they'd rather take the easy way out and destroy the earth a little more.
-Kimato-

[Argis]

The irony is about America is that we freed ourselves from one tyrant. To run in to a different one call Big Biz. All great empires fall as time goes by it saddens me to say our time running fast. With our "eh, mother nature can take one more hit for the team." ""Well... is it hunting us now?" "It my hard earned money, why should I give up a bit to a foundation." with those says and thought we as Americans heck everyone one in the world is this way. We have caused poor, famine, widespread disease, terrorist, the Sahara(to grow), smog, disintegrating atmosphere/ozone, a trash belt floating a round in space(to small to really notice its mostly small stuff like human waste, tooth paste bottles, ect.) instead of fixing these problems we build death and maiming weapons of long range shots. Now a war you don't need numbers in men just in missiles.

[Arlen]

Granted we are all hardworkers but we did elect them to chose what to do with our money so I mean what the hey, the world is on a cycle and right now america is almost at its peak later on we will be on a downfall that will leave us perhaps like china is right now, once a great nation they are now struggling with their populace but are continually on the rise and how people have you actually known to break the cycle and actually do something about it and if they did were they really listened to or were they pacified by having someone pretend to listen to them when really that person or persons meaningful words just fell on deaf ears? Thats how america is run and if we don't stop it granted we will fall, but who is going to stop it?

[Argis]

well thats the thing no one will. lets take Wally world (Wal-Mart) for example some is mad. "I'm tired of you people out sourceing jods to the chinese I'm boycotting!" A day or so passes by and oh no your pillows spontaniously combusted. Well you need new pillows right well... hey look Wally world is haveing a sale on pillows and blankets even that new serta..."No i don't want to shop there i just go too "The sleep like a baby store;" to get new pillows. oh I'm sorry they closed no one went there anymore. "But, But I need new pillows well I guess your out of luck..."Ok ok fine i buy but this is it..." Now he is a regular money spender at wally world.
thats how BIg Biz works they move in and then offer low prices discountes...till their the only ones then prices get a little higher the dicountes disapear....

[Kimato]

Exactly, Arlen. That is the question everyone is asking. Who will stop the cycle?

Not the government of today.

Not the citizens of today.

So what about the citizens of tomorrow? The problem is that people really buy into the "I can't change anything; I'm just one person!" philosophy. So they just roll with the punches.

There have been people in the past that REFUSED to roll with the punches, and they made differences, for good or ill. Then there were people that decided to just go with it to save themselves inconvenience, and they gave rise to such tyranny and evil as the Nazi Regime.

The problem with America is that there are too many people who take your position, Arlen. They are too content to let things just run a course, instead of getting up and doing something about it. They are convinced that nothing will change, and so they do nothing, and nothing EVER changes. I hate to say it, but it's people with that attitude that will not make a difference and will aid America in its downward spiral.

It's people who will risk a little, sacrifice a little, and take a few chances that will try to stop that spiral. They may fail, but at least they won't be ashamed of their lives. I know I won't have any regrets, even if I do not reach my goal. Someone will always be there that is as stubborn as I was, and they'll pick it up and finish it.
-Kimato-

[Dimitri]

*imitating Dr. Phil*

Now I'm sensing some hostility in this board. Someone should start an anger management board. I think we shouldn't drill. If we do, it's going to be the 60's all over again, what with the protesting, pickting and general rabble.

[Whitakker]

I believe that it would be beneficial to our economy to drill ANWR, but we should be careful of how we go about it. There is a way to drill without harming our precious wildlife(*noted sarcasm*God forbid that we ever harm a hair on their bodies:. Trust me, our government is smarter than we give it credit for. They know ways to get around harming the wildlife. And I don't think that the government would go in there willy-nilly and drill the whole place until it's a barren wasteland, or else they'd have all the tree-huggers after their rears, and they don't want any more problems than they already have on their plate. We're dealing with much more important issues, so they wouldn't want to get on their bad side. But the point is that it can be done, as long as we use extreme caution.

And Kimato, I do agree that there are other means of energy that we can use. It's just that these methods aren't displayed or advertised as much, or there would be greater demand for them. I mean, I heard of a car that used hydrogen as it's main power source, and the waste was pure H2O. I'm sure the buyers are out there...

[Argis]

[glow=blue,2,300]I believe that it would be beneficial to our economy to drill ANWR… yeah but that what they said about Freeing oil from Iraq…<br>
Trust me, our government is smarter than we give it credit for. They know ways to get around harming the wildlife. yeah lets trust George and Di ck to protect animals hey while we are at it lets trust our Michel Jackson with kids. Also let us trust a Mr. bear with my favorite deer.

or else they'd have all the tree-huggers after their rears, and they don't want any more problems than they already have on their plate. They already have “tree huggers” (people who care about the environment) after their rear do you not watch the non-conservative news…wait even they said that. (Inserts sarcastic ton) But hey who cares about the ozone or trees like we need them any was.

Haven’t you read the first the first part of the issue? There is in real profit it would be awesome but no one want to give money away. To save mother earth.
[/glow]

Besides heck it not like oil has ever hurt any wildlife.

[Arlen]

Oh that is funnier than crap I come in today to this thread and what would you know would pop up in the advertisement be "BECOME A DRILLER,LEARN TO DRILL OR BECOME AN ENGINEER AND WORK CLOSELY WITH OIL RIGS AND OTHER DRILLING PROJECTS." I found it funny simply because of the thread. ;D

[Whitakker]

I noticed that too. Very ironic:D.

1. The war in Iraq is not about oil, no matter how hard you scream and shout that it is. It is about freeing a country from a tyrant, which we accomplished, and we are still fighting the war on terror there at this moment.

2. You give me the impression that you think that GW and Cheney are the only two people living in D.C. They don't run the country all by their lonesome. There is a governmental institution called Congress that does more than GW and Cheney put together. Don't blame every little problem this country has on them. And when was Michael Jackson ever an issue on this thread? And if you have a pet deer, well then, that's your deal, not ours.

3. Don't start thinking that conservatives don't care for the environment. It's just that every time that we propose a bill for doing something to help Mother Nature, the liberals condemn it to Hades.

Now, back to something that matters, like, picking up where we dropped the original conversation before we started babbling nonsense about Big Business and The Man. Who would like to bring us back on track again? Anyone...?

3.